QT 4 Post-Mortem

forrest06/23/2020
http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?bbo=y&myhand=M-123457649-1592876747
i was thinking mark should duck the club lead
but maybe it doesn't matter if you think it's from KQ
unless you're worried about a ruff happening on trick 3
also i'm not sure what west is supposed to bid, but pretty sure it's not pass throughout haha
chuhchung06/23/2020
i think W passing throughout is actually kinda sensible
forrest06/23/2020
yeah nothing looks attractive
but your 6-6! and it's w/w
chuhchung06/23/2020
and i would duck the club,yes
forrest06/23/2020
based on what i said or something else
chuhchung06/23/2020
just a common pattern
sometimes they continue, especially in the 299er
and you delay two quick losers
forrest06/23/2020
right
the diamond suit is interesting
oh not as interesting as i thought
was looking at west splitting vs not
chuhchung06/23/2020
haha

forrest06/23/2020
i botched this one
for some reason i thought declarer had the HA
even though it was in dummy
so i pitched my HK because i thought the only way to set was to get my spades when mark had a 3rd
chuhchung06/23/2020
haha oops

forrest06/23/2020
we discussed this one on stream
if i'm recalling what you said
lead a spade up hoping that W will pop K
which will tell me where the HQ is if it happens
though you could do the same with a diamond?
chuhchung06/23/2020
yeah but spades are better cuz you have the T
if they don't pop K, you put in the T and hope that the jack is onside
so you're kind of accomplishing a lot at once
but there's no real chance of that in diamonds
plus you might generate an extra trick in spades too
forrest06/23/2020
right

forrest06/23/2020
this auction was inventive
chuhchung06/23/2020
haha
3D should be forcing
forrest06/23/2020
first question was transfer or staymen
we play :2S: transfer to both minors iirc
chuhchung06/23/2020
stayman then :3D:
forrest06/23/2020
on this hand mark presumably bids :3N: after that
chuhchung06/23/2020
i would just let it be
forrest06/23/2020
yeah had a hard time figuring out how happy i should be with :3N:
chuhchung06/23/2020
no strong feelings though. maybe :5D: is the right target
forrest06/23/2020
so if i didn't have a major, not quite sure how the transfer should work
w/ a major i'd transfer and then bid :3N:
but here i haven't actually specified which minor
chuhchung06/23/2020
oh. just play 2S xfer to clubs and 3C xfer to D
like, are you really it using that bid for something
forrest06/23/2020
no
we're not
ok time to actually start a list
of things to update
chuhchung06/23/2020
List: teach Molly my system
Speech-to-text cut me off. But that should be the first on your list!!!

forrest06/23/2020
another one to review
so we discussed fast arrival recently
and how in game force 3M is strong
chuhchung06/23/2020
Oh. Fast arrival is actually really bad
I'm driving right now. I haven't actually seen the hand. But it's really bad in general
Oh yeah this one. I mean markten really just did 6 Spades
forrest06/23/2020
yeah he said he knew we didn't have 33
but as you said you don't need that
chuhchung06/23/2020
33 points is only for balance slams. And yeah 32 is more like the goal post
There aren't really any rules for suited slams
I mean there are common patterns of slammed that make. But I mean there is no high card Point rule
forrest06/26/2020
idk if you have more to say about fast arrival. We don't have as many GF early auctions so the cases where we've "agreed" to it are like jacoby 2nt 3M strong vs 4M minimum
chuhchung06/26/2020
oh, yeah
that's one place where it's KIND of ok, but the real issue that not all minimums are the same
Axxxx Kxx Axxx x is a high card minimum but is MUCH more slam suitable than AJxxx QJx QJx Kx which is a high card max
it's probaly not worth devoting that much time over though
it's something worth discussing if you clear up your 2/1 auctions (regardless of standard or 2/1)
forrest06/26/2020
yeah i believe currently in our 2/1 auctions 3M would be weaker than 4M
chuhchung06/26/2020
for 2/1 auctions, if you bid :1S: :2D:; :2S: :4S: for example, that should be a picture bid
it's not a minimum or maixmum thing
it's telling partner you have a GF, you have all of your values in diamonds and spades, and you have no controls on the outside
i guess this is confounded by not playing 2/1. yeah, this probably isn't worth thinking about right now
forrest06/26/2020
yeah we need 3M as invite more

forrest06/26/2020
so would you actually have doubled w/ this?
you made a comment about it but couldn't tell if you were joking haha
chuhchung06/26/2020
yeah i would
@thymepuns calls these "Chris doubles"
well, this one probably doesn't even register on the sicko radar, so maybe not
also, mark needs to win SQ when you shift
not K
if he plays K to hold the trick, you should place declarer with SAQ
forrest06/26/2020
oh yeah and then he shouldn't play another spade either
chuhchung06/26/2020
yes
forrest06/26/2020
turns out i get the uppercut

forrest06/26/2020
Convinced myself to bid 3N but there are a lot of ways for it to go wrong
chuhchung06/26/2020
yeah that was well done
:3N: is normal
dw about it
forrest06/26/2020
oh this was the mp discussion
where you just have to go for all the tricks
chuhchung06/26/2020
it's not QUITE as simple as that, but that's a reasonable rule of thumb
on this one, mark is just down if the spade finesse is off, right?
so why not just assume it is on and make the boatloads of overs
forrest06/26/2020
yeah I meant in this case
chuhchung06/26/2020
if you're down, you're probably getting a terrible score anyway
forrest06/26/2020
not necessarily always
chuhchung06/26/2020
you might save like 10-20% by holding the undertricks, but my gut feel is you will win an extra 40% if you take the overs
i think the actual result reflected that right?
forrest06/26/2020
we got a 45 because other people did the same thing
+2 is 90%
chuhchung06/26/2020
go me! :stuck_out_tongue:

forrest06/26/2020
http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?bbo=y&myhand=M-123457517-1592876747
should i be leading a heart because it's more likely to be my partner's suit? (and majors against nt)
chuhchung06/26/2020
majors against NT probably doesn't matter on this hand/auction
double should call for an unusual lead and i would honestly consider firing a club
heart is a normal looking lead on this auction from mark's POV so i wouldn't double with his hand, probably. but you're just getting owned on this hand, double or no
forrest06/26/2020
yeah he was sad about it but I looked at the scoring and we were getting a zero regardless
chuhchung06/26/2020
i think double is traditionally supposed to ask for dummy's first bid suit, at least for a trump contract
forrest06/26/2020
how does that rule work? I have read about lightner a bit
chuhchung06/26/2020
but your'e allowed to listen to the auction and i think a spade lead is pretty nutso on this hand auction so
the rule for lightner really is as simple as "find me"
haha
so just make your best guess
forrest06/26/2020
i wasn't sure if that was a "convention"
chuhchung06/26/2020
but don't do something "normal"
lightner specifically says "FIND ME FIND ME IT'S SOMETHING WEIRD"
so at a trump contract, you're trying to hit a ruff at T1
at NT you're trying to find the cashers
forrest06/26/2020
got it
so you give up penalty doubles of slams entirely - makes sense to me.
chuhchung06/26/2020
idk if it's a convention per se, but it's the only logical way to play it
right
forrest06/26/2020
they got to keycard or whatever
they know what they are doing
(often)
chuhchung06/26/2020
and to be clear, if they're obviously saving (like you open 2C), and then you elect to double them off in 6, that's not lightner. that's obviously business
right
but if your opponents power into slam, and you have it beat in your hand
do you really need to double?
aren't you just getting a top?
worse, if you double and alert them to bad breaks, what if they make now?
38165472906/26/2020
I thought a lightner double IS a penalty double
chuhchung06/26/2020
so double should only be used when you think you can't beat the hand WITHOUT the double. aka "it's weird, find me!"
38165472906/26/2020
I guess you're giving up the penalty double on the "normal" lead
forrest06/26/2020
penalty, lead directing, artificial, psychic double
chuhchung06/26/2020
i played with this pickukp partner in florida, oh my god
the opponents stab 6N and he's on lead with SAK
he DOUBLES because they are going down, ha ha, what a bunch of idiots
and now opponents pull to 7D
he is no longer on lead
and i am sitting here thinking "why the fuck did i come to this club to play pickup"
so that's a ridiculous fucking double
you have it beat without the double. leave it alone.
38165472906/26/2020
I think he should double again to make the opponents pull to 7N
chuhchung06/26/2020
double when you NEED the double to beat it
forrest06/26/2020
idk if i've scored -1880 before this hand
chuhchung06/26/2020
haha
i definitely have
i doubled, partner gave me a ruff at T1, and.... declarer claimed.
lol

forrest06/26/2020
rabbi's rule
chuhchung06/26/2020
oh yeah this one
forrest06/26/2020
though it might be more justified after they ruff
chuhchung06/26/2020
i commented during the stream but i didn't watch the play
yeah,. i don't know the odds, but i always play the long hand to have ruffed
so i also go for the drop now
i copmmented in the stream that he needs to hook, but i'm pretty sure i backpedaled too. i didn't see tricks 1-2
forrest06/26/2020
pretty friendly defense
chuhchung06/26/2020
eh, they didn't really give anything up right?
i mean i wouldn't lead DA so i guess he got lucky
forrest06/26/2020
sA
as well
chuhchung06/26/2020
but the tricks are meaningless
forrest06/26/2020
oh actually that's good
yeah nvm

forrest06/26/2020
this was the pull of 2HX
chuhchung06/26/2020
i cried
forrest06/26/2020
was trying to think of the right way to phrase the auction
they're on the run
so now all doubles are penalty?
chuhchung06/26/2020
you can make an agreement here
either your subsequent first double is takeout, or it's penalty
standard is penalty
forrest06/26/2020
yeah i could see how takeout could be useful, but penalty seems better here to me
chuhchung06/26/2020
takeout still allows you to penalize since you just pass and wait for partner's double
i don't know what's best
but when you made that double (and assuming you haven't discussed it really should be pens) he NEEEEEDS to sit
this is a murder

forrest06/26/2020
this one was fairly straightforward - I was curious which seats this is 2S in though
chuhchung06/26/2020
there's kind of a spectrum of <-- safe ---- ----- danger -->
i actually would have just :1S: this
with a singleton on the side i would go :2S: in third, but if you never preempt a 5 card suit vulnerable, you'd probably do fine
:2S: on the actual hand feels aggro to me, but this really isn't a science. i'm sure lots of people would bid this
your opp made a nice play in the club suit
well, maybe. hmm, probably wrong here
:joy:
C8 instead of CQ
but look! it didn't cost!
@forrest er sorry, to answer your question. i would preempt nv 1st and 3rd, vul 3rd this is borderline for me
forrest06/26/2020
got it
chuhchung06/26/2020
this is just my judgment. many people think i am crazy, so :stuck_out_tongue: